Someone on Gab sent me some questions regarding mixed-race ancestry and political allegiances and asked me to share my answers publicly. Succinct TL;DR answers are at the end of the textwalls below.
1. “At what threshold can we expect a non-100% White person to genuinely act in the interests of Whites?”
This honestly depends on the individual. Not a great answer since politics should be based on generalizations and rules, rather than exceptions. I would assume that someone with living non-White ancestors (parents, grandparents, great grandparents) would be more likely to identify with their non-White ancestry, which would almost always interfere with any pro-White political views simply due to the hegemony of anti-White ideology. This isn’t to say people who aren’t 100% White can’t genuinely act in our interests; I know non-100% White people who are very pro-White and not at all subversive. This includes a half East Asian guy.
2. “At what point does Jewish ancestry become insignificant enough for a man to stop associating himself with Jews in any way and start acting in White racial interests only?”
This is a more difficult and interesting question. Again, I think it depends on the individual. People who are not raised Jewish and discover that they have some Jewish ancestry after becoming politically based are very unlikely to switch over to team ZOG. I know some 100% pro-White people who oppose Jewish power but have Jewish ancestry (up to 25% in one case), including the person who asked these questions. They don’t identify as Jewish or promote Jewish ethnic/political interests at all.
On the other hand, discovering Jewish ancestry while being politically un-based seems to make people identify with their Jewish ancestry and Jewish ethnic/political interests. Moreover, many people who identify as Ashkenazi Jewish have as little as 1/8th or 1/16th Ashkenazi ancestry. Considering that Ashkenazis on average are genetically half Middle Eastern and half European, that equates to 1/16th or 1/32nd Middle Eastern ancestry (or 6.25% and 3.125%, respectively). Southern Italians and Greek islanders have more Middle Eastern ancestry than that.
So, a not insignificant number of “Ashkenazi Jews” are essentially just LARPing Europeans. Some “Ashkenazi Jews,” like Ivanka Trump, are quite literally just LARPing Europeans with no Jewish ancestry whatsoever. But even with these low (or nonexistent) percentages of Ashkenazi ancestry, they are still 100% on board with Jewish political interests (Zionism, globalism, Leftism, etc.) and unequivocally opposed to White political interests (White nationalism, social conservatism, etc.).
In this case, it seems that people who have Jewish ancestry but do not identify with it are the exception to the rule. This is likely because Jewish cultural identity is so strong and they are, to be frank, a very powerful ethnic group. There are so many sociopolitical benefits to being ethnically Jewish that 100% racially European people will convert to Judaism or marry all of their kids off to Jews in an attempt to climb the social ladder (see: Trump, Biden).
TL;DR:
- “At what threshold can we expect a non-100% White person to genuinely act in the interests of Whites?”
Usually people who don’t have living non-White ancestors (parents, grandparents, great grandparents).
- “At what point does Jewish ancestry become insignificant enough for a man to stop associating himself with Jews in any way and start acting in White racial interests only?”
Usually people who weren’t raised Jewish or only discover their Jewish ancestry by chance via DNA test after they become politically based. However, people who only have one Jewish grandparent or even great grandparent very often identify as Jewish and promote Jewish racial interests simply because it is socially beneficial to do so.
Thuletide 
Interesting article, Sir Thuletide.
What do you think leads to these people betraying their racial interests? A “White” Hispanic is understandable, but browns/blacks/jews?
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First of all, Hispanic only refers to people from Spanish-speaking countries. It doesn’t indicate race unless by White hispanics, you meant mestizos (half-amerindian, half-white people) or harnizos (2/3 white, 1/3 amerindian), these people are not white but I understand the confusion.
There are White hispanics descending from European settlers (Spaniards) or immigrants (i.e. immigration to Argentina in 19th and 20th century, Cubans who fled communism in the 50s were white, those who came later are mostly blacks/mestizos) who are as white as the average white north-American from Canada or the States.
And to answer your question, i believe the only nonwhites who’d do that would have no racial conscience to begin with (they don’t believe race is real or it’s just a mentality/a question of skin color) or hate their race a lot bc of personal experiences and prefer Whites so much (bc of looks, intelligence…) they’d pretend to be white online or defend them like some WNs do. I dont believe they’d do that to get laid (they dont have to go that far in a multiracial society)
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Do note that if you’re living in a western country, have mostly western culture and enough digits to your IQ, you may notice that life is just much nicer here than in whatever hellhole you were from and choose to side with your host population because it is best for your individual interests.
Yes you’re racially betraying but the difference in “liveability” between some third world hellhole and western civilization can be enough to make your individual interest overpower your in-group bias.
Do note that white nationalists will usually side with asian nationalism in their countries. Might have to do with those places being civilized ? (damage from western leftist influence and CCP nonsense aside)
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Hi Thule, serious question
– Do you honestly believe our side will ever see victory & that we will somehow deport the Millions of Inter-Generational Non-Europeans from our lands???
I ask this because even White creations such as Classical Music have been taken over as the best violinists, pianists, cellists, conductors are now either Jewish or East Asian.
We *NEED* a racial identity in order to become more successful & continue to rightfully lead what we created. Most of Silicon Valley & STEM is Asian/Jewish. We are losing ground by the hour by groups who, unlike us, possess a sense of racial identity & the honour/shaming mechanisms that came with that.
I believe Europeans are denied a sense of racial identity because every Non-European racial group knows deep in their bones that we would surpass them by every metric in all intellectual, creative & civilizational affairs if we were a united peoples…
TL;DR I am just very black pilled man especially given that in South Africa we simply can’t muster up the courage to unite along racial lines & instead end up handing our guns over. Even when war has been declared we are so atomized we can’t do what is necessary.
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Hey Leonardo, are you actually from South Africa? Did I interpret what you wrote correctly? If so, is what they say about the white farmers in South Africa true? I find conflicting information when I look into this.
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.I FUCKING HATE UBERSOY! The dude isn’t actually that intelligent btw. He made a video defending me and it was honestly garbage. His brain trust on the JQ is a guy named “Winston” who is another Jew (who says “I’m more white than Jewish trust me goyim”). Indeed he is notorious for downplaying the Jewish role in Communism and Bolshevism (would recommend Karl Radl’s “Sources on Jews and Communism”) and for saying “muh conspiracies aren’t real”. Obvious Moldbug simp to the extent where people like Sean Last (I’ll call him implicitly anti-Jewish, since I’m aware he’s more careful than his counter part on that topic) have criticized UBERSOY for defending characters like Cofnas and making shit arguments on the JQ.
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Slightly unrelated, but on the topic of acting along racial interests.
How does jews (or at least the large share of them that does) embracing leftism work in their racial interest for the parts of leftism beyond destroying western civilization and culture ? We often see them self deconstructing their own traditions in the name of feminism, gay stuff and other postmodernism just as hard as they’re pushing to deconstruct us. Resulting in their own internal right wing reaction (mostly from their own conservative elements) that often takes the form of siding with us in the fight against this nonsense.
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I guess its the same principle as suicide bombers. they dont really care as long as they take us down and there will always be at least some of them who maintain religious principles and dont get friendly fired by their own tricks
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I’d guess it has something to do with how “passing” someone is. Take even a quadroon, and they’ll likely be anti-white – unless they’re in a country with basically no blacks, but with the dawn of the internet and globalization, now it doesn’t matter anyway.
But let’s say, take a fully Jewish baby, and give it to a White household, it won’t magically subvert everything as an adult, unless it somehow falls into a libtard well. Even if it looks a bit different than other Whites they’ll chuck it up to being part Sicilian or whatever.
So in the end, appearance matters most
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There’s so much incentive and propaganda out there, though. That’s how you get Rachel Dolezal types.
And of course the feminist doctrine of intersectionality gives many different grievance groups entrance into the grievance hierarchy. Women, gays, drug addicts the emotionally unbalanced – all these people are allowed to benefit from antiwhiteness. Not to the extent of blacks or jews, but if they’re willing to affirm the narrative they can get some kickback. The great satan to the left is the “hetero white cispatriarchy”, so if you can position yourself in opposition to _any_ of that you can be on the team in some capacity provided you show deference to the higher-ups.
A lot of the tumblr queer nonsense that’s become incredibly mainstream in the last several years is a result of this. Any white kid can see that he will be systematically excluded from and attacked by all the institutions his forefathers built and then watched be parasitized. If he can identify as some kind of whatsit or thingamajig, however much of a reach (“I’m faekind with extreme anxiety and chronic Lyme disease, I experience oppression under capitalism”), he can to at least some extent lay his cross of whiteness on the shoulder of someone else who won’t do that.
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“Southern Italians and Greek islanders have more Middle Eastern ancestry than that”.
Do you have any source for that?
As far as I have seen southern Italians (can’t be sure for Greek islanders since I haven’t seen studies on them) are the most trolled group in online genetics hobby circles, and G25 isn’t reliable at all for them and many, many people passed mistery meats’ genetic results as southern Italians’, furthermore many mistery meats from America LARP as southern Italians since it was common to pass one’s black ancestry as “Italian/Sicilian” (look up Lacey Schwartz or Vivian Liberto).
South Italians by the way cluster with continental Greeks from the Peloponnesus, https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.02.26.482072v1.full
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if G25 samples are somehow unreliable for modern south italians then they are unreliable for the entire genetic history of italy because it shows near eastern ancestry in italy from after the iron age onwards, and rome was more middle eastern than white during the imperial era, unless its sample bias from roman cremation practices
https://imgur.com/a/QlgiCi2
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I’ve known since early childhood that, according to my grandmother, I had a tiny (approaching zero) amount of non-White ancestry, like a great-great-great-grandparent who wasn’t White. I’ve never identified with that ancestry and couldn’t care less. I don’t feel anything but White, and don’t care more for that ancestral group than I would any other foreigner (maybe less, because I’m embarrassed at how they act today). I’ve always naturally been conservative, though. I was encouraged in school to try to play up or identify with any non-White ancestry, no matter how insignificant, and I suppose that if I’d been LibLeft, I might’ve fallen for that kind of thinking. But I can never look at myself and see anything but White. The only thing that ever gives me any pause is wondering if others don’t see me as White, but the amount of bullying which I received from blacks in school makes me confident that it’s likely that no one can tell the difference. But leftists would have me believe that I should be on the side of non-Whites because Whites will reject me if I have even one drop of non-White blood. I don’t believe that, because I’ve never felt that way myself about other people who had a minority of non-White blood, but saying “you’ll never really be White” is the tactic that Leftists employ to try to divide us. They bring up Jewish hoaxes like claiming that we don’t see Finns or Sicilians or Irish as White. It’s good to counter that message where possible and to enthusiastically emphasize that anyone who is mostly White and who works for White interests and unity is indeed White.
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“They bring up Jewish hoaxes like claiming that we don’t see Finns or Sicilians or Irish as White”
There is ideology on one side and the observation of reality which is not linked to ideology
When we point out the fact that the “Southern Italians” (even the samples of “Abruzzo”) group with, or even in the cluster, Ashkenazim, who are at least 40-60% East-Mediterranean/Middle-Eastern, it is only a fact , genetic studies confirm this. Like the ancien siberian imput among Finnish… 5% on average may seem low, however some have more, others less
However in the case of the Finns, their Siberian intake could be lower (although the influence may be visible phenotypically) depending on the individual, because the Siberian intake includes an ancient North Eurasian intake (but I don’t know at how much percentage).
Moreover, why should we deny firstly the differences between “totally white” ethnic groups without extra-European ancestry from near or far (this exists), and secondly sunch populations in Europe which are more distant because of significant Siberian / ancient North African / Middle Eastern contributions ?
The right is differentiated by the observation of reality and, subsequently, an ideological thought, compared to the left which puts forward the ideology before any observation of reality.
Moreover, Thuletide was not ideological on this point, he only exposed what genetic studies confirm: “Southern Italians” (Campanian, Calabrese, Apulia, Molise, Sicile and other) and a good portion of Greeks have a significant Middle Eastern contribution.
Thuletide would have been more ideological if he had asserted that only SOME Greeks and southern Italy who have a “Levantine” or “intermediate” phenotype have a mixed genetic profile, not the others… however, he knows well that within individuals with a mixed genetic profile, the phenotypes are variable and this single data that is the phenotype does not make it possible to classify an individual as “completely white” from the point of view of its complete genome ! Phenotypic part which is only the expression of certain genetic variants… there are Ashkenazim who have a totally European phenotype while having a 40-60% Middle Eastern genetic profile (but inbreeding and endogamy sometimes helps to preserve recessive traits, which can sometimes be expressed, which would have disappeared without this endogamy and consanguinity).
I don’t see anything ideological in what Thuletide wrote
However, as a “white nationalist”/whatever, one can very well question the logic of considering Ashkenazim as partly non-white (which they are, in fact, genetically speaking), while considering “southern Italians” and Greeks as “totally white just tanned”, it doesn’t really make sense… it seems to me to be ideological by the way.
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I dont think people from abruzzo are 60% Middle Eastern, would like to see a model of that
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I did not say that they were 60%, they are located a little more “north” (on the PCA) than the Ashkenazim, however they remain quite close to the Ashkenazim. The map is a simplification.
Not all Ashkenazim are 60% Eastern Mediterranean, in the Eastern part of the Mediterranean there must be an EEF intake I guess, but given that the Ashkenazi intake is around 35-50% I don’t see how Abruzzo could be considered at least 90-97% European, that doesn’t seem coherent to me. They are so close to Ashkenazi, with some samples leaning more towards Umbrian samples which are not even totally “Tuscan”.
If we take an individual with only 5-10% Levantine and the rest Etruscan, I doubt that this individual even clusters like the Abruzzo samples.
I know that in general on this subject, the denial of extra-European contributions is very frequent among certain nationalists (not you), with regard to certain populations who live in Europe but who have a very particular genetic profile: they reproach the leftists for putting the ideology in the foreground in front of the facts, the observation of the state of reality, but they themselves sometimes put this into practice.
I will be told about the EEF and Indo-European contribution in common, yes it is true that they have that in common… but the samples from southern Italy, like abruzzo, cannot simply be modeled with three prehistoric samples.
On the internet, I’ve seen people modeling the Sicilians, for example, as 68% EEF, 28% Indo-European, 0-1% WHG, 2% CHG + 2% Iranian Neolithic: the problem with this modeling is that if they had only 2% Neolithic Iranian + 2% Levantine, on a PCA they would be close to Etruscan or Lombardy (bergamo) samples, but they are not.
But whatever, anyway my post was off topic so I apologize.
I apologize for my English, it’s not my mother tongue.
Good article otherwise. Thanks.
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yes there is no way they only have 2% Iran_N or Natufian ancestry.
these are samples from G25, some italians have protested and said that it is biased and likely includes middle eastern immigrant populations alongside natives:
but as you say, on the PCA it’s clear that south Italians clearly have a notable contribution from the near east.
I denied that this contribution was significant in the past but I had not seen enough data at the time. It’s even more obvious here:
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Thank you for the answer. I agree with you, the graph shows that the populations of the “Central” area (the “Etruria” zone it seems to me, therefore which includes some part of the south of present-day Italy) already had a strong East-Mediterranean contribution during the period Imperial Rome and the Middle Ages, and currently the contribution is a little lower for the stricto central part (thanks to re-Europeanization), the Tuscany, but for everything below the Tuscany it is even more pronounced.
Modern Tuscans had such a large influx from the Eastern Mediterranean during the Roman Empire, so large that the “Tuscan cluster” of the Roman Republic moved to the Eastern Mediterranean cluster (Egypt, Lebanon, Cypriots, etc. .), then that in the Middle Ages the “Tuscan cluster” reoriented a little bit somewhat towards the previous Etruscan cluster (due to an influx from Central Europe, I believe) but not totally, and that currently the modern “Tuscan cluster” lies between the ancient Etruscan cluster and the Euro+Eastern-Mediterranean (aka Ashkenazim, and other, cluster), this means that even the samples from Abruzzo, which are not geographically the most southern, are genetically even more Eastern-Mediterraneans that the modern Tuscans, who are already more so than the Etruscans.
Would it be possible to obtain your email address to avoid going off-topic on certain articles? I would like to share some G25 samples with you, I have collected several samples.
Have a good day.
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> There are so many sociopolitical benefits to being ethnically Jewish that 100% racially European people will convert to Judaism or marry all of their kids off to Jews in an attempt to climb the social ladder (see: Trump, Biden).
This is also why the first question is hard to answer because material reality can conflict with a person’s honest philosophy. Even the tenth of whatever non-white group that is based (unashamedly using 2016 “muh based blacks” rhetoric here, don’t care) is still faced with the same incentive structure as the rest.
If I could get diversitybux I would and anyone who can wet their beak by hook or by crook should, frankly. Some of you reading this are 12% Cherokee or whatever, use it to loot whatever you can from this sinking ship.
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I’ve actually seen some argue that “whiteness” will “shift” to increasingly include mixed race people and that “whites won’t become a minority that way”.
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if they’re mixed-race then they aren’t white, they’re mixed race.
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