The study in question is ‘The genomic origins of the Bronze Age Tarim Basin mummies.’
Read here: https://archive.vn/ffqPH
Contents
- Preamble
- TL;DR
- Tarim Mummies, the story so far
- What the new study actually tells us (genetic results)
4.1. Genetics: Tarim EMBA
4.2. Genetics: Dzungaria EBA. - Tarim mummies, the story updated
- Disinformation contained in the study
1. Preamble
I don’t know if the authors work for the CCP or not, I just presume that Chinese university scientists are employed by their communist government. Did the clickbait work? Apologies for any typos or errors, just got back from the gym and I see this malarkey. Now I’m tired and seething.
The raw data from this study was leaked earlier this year, so I’ve already had a chance to check it out. Looks like my prediction on Twitter that “this paper will make some ridiculous sweeping conclusions” was 100% correct.
This quote perfectly summarizes the shoddily disguised propaganda piece that is this study: “the material culture and genetic profile of the Tarim mummies from around 2100 bc onwards call into question simplistic assumptions about the link between genetics, culture and language.”
2. TL;DR
Archaeologists thought that the earliest Tarim mummies were one type of Caucasoid population (Indo-Europeans) but it turns out that they were a different type of Caucasoid population (similar to West Siberian Hunter-Gatherers) that was directly descended from the Paleolithic ancestors of the Proto-Indo-Europeans: The Ancient North Eurasians. The mainstream media and even the study authors themselves have published a lot of disinformation and are lying by omission to obfuscate these simple facts.
3. Tarim mummies, the story so far
At the beginning of the 20th century, European explorers found mummies preserved in the Tarim desert of Xinjiang in Western China. The earliest mummies are dated to around 4,000 years ago and the latest to around 2,000 years ago. Surprisingly, archaeologists and anthropologists found that the early Tarim mummies “were exclusively Caucasoid, or Europoid” [Victor Mair]. Their phenotypic features include many stereotypically European traits, including tall stature, high cheek bones, deep-set eyes, “fair hair, long nose, elongated skulls, high cranial vaults, etc.” [Christopher P. Thornton]. Many of the mummies have intact hair, with colors ranging from light blond to deep brown. From around 3,000 years ago, mummies of the Tarim’s eastern regions begin to show some Mongoloid/East Asian phenotypes.
Scientists presumed that the Europid mummies must have been Indo-Europeans, as multiple Indo-European languages (including Tocharian and Sogdian) are archaeologically attested in the region. Furthermore, many Chinese primary sources speak of people with Northern European features living in the northern, central, and western regions of what is now modern-day China:
- “The Great Yuezhi are located about seven thousand li [2,910 km] north of India. […] The skin of the people there is reddish white.” — The Western Regions, Wan Zhen (3rd century AD)
- “Among the barbarians in the Western Regions, the look of the Wusun is the most unusual. The present barbarians who have green eyes and red hair, and look like macaque monkeys, are the offspring of this people.” — Book of Han, Yan Shigu (1st Century AD)
The Tocharian language was last attested in the Tarim Basin during the Early Middle Ages until the Tocharian-speakers were wiped out by East Asians through genocide and assimilation. However, linguistic analysis has shown that the Tocharian language descends from an extremely early split in the Indo-European family tree. The only viable source for this language is the Afanasievo population, which inhabited the Altai Mountains and Mongolia, immediately to the north of Xinjiang, from around 3300 BC.
The logical conclusion was that these Caucasoid/Europid mummies must have descended from the Afanasievo people. A genetic study conducted on Tarim mummies of the Xiaohe Cemetery (dated 2000 to 1500 BC) found that all of the men carried the Y-DNA haplogroup (male lineage) R1a1a, confirming that “the parental ancestry of the Xiaohe people originated from somewhere in Siberia or Europe, which is consistent with the origin of maternal ancestry.”
However, a 2018 study found that Afanasievo men overwhelmingly belonged to the haplogroup R1b, meaning that the Xiaohe mummies could not have paternally descended from the Afanasievo peoples. The male ancestry of these Xiaohe mummies was likely derived from the R1a-carrying Andronovo population, Indo-Iranic-speaking Northern Europeans who migrated into Asia from Eastern Europe during the Bronze Age.
The 2018 study confirmed that the material culture of the Xiaohe Cemetery was “incompatible with the Afanasievo culture” and pointed out that the Xiaohe burials aligned with the beginning of the Andronovo period, which was 500 years later than the Afanasievo period. It also noted that “the Bronze Age population of the Xinjiang at Gumugou/Qäwrighul is not phenotypically closest to Afanasievo but to the Andronovo (Fedorovo) group of northeastern Kazakhstan and western Altai.”
Interestingly, a 2019 study documented a change in burial practices across the Tarim Basin from the Late Bronze Age to the Early Iron Age, with the newer burials being more closely aligned to those of the wider Andronovo culture.
In summary:
- The Tocharian language was attested in Xinjiang until the Early Middle Ages.
- This language is a very archaic Indo-European language that split from some of the earliest Proto-Indo-European populations.
- The only viable candidates for this language appearing in Xinjiang are the Afanasievo people, who lived immediately to the north.
- Genetic analysis on Tarim mummies from the Xiaohe Cemetery found that they exclusively belonged to the Y-DNA haplogroup R1a, rather than the Afanasievo R1b.
- Therefore, they probably descended from R1a-carrying, Indo-Iranic-speaking Andronovo peoples, who neighbored the Tarim Basin.
- Physical analysis demonstrated that Xiaohe phenotypes more closely resembled Andronovo people than Afanasievo.
- Likewise, their burial rites were very similar to those of the Andronovo.
So, from this information we can assume that the Afanasievo people must have inhabited the Tarim Basin at some point, otherwise their Tocharian language would not be in the region. Then, during the Bronze Age, an Andronovo-related population invaded the region, replacing its existing male lineages and importing new cultural practices. For some reason, this Andronovo-related population decided to keep the Tocharian language. Why? We’ll never know.
4. What the new study actually tells us (genetic results)
Bizarrely, nobody has thought to conduct an autosomal genetic analysis on the Tarim Mummies until 2021. This mystery could have been solved long ago. Presumably, the ChiComs didn’t want to play ball. They’ve caused a lot of problems for Western scientists trying to study the Tarim mummies.
Anyway, the study looked at five Early Bronze Age (EBA) individuals from the Dzungarian Basin (3000–2800 BC) and thirteen Early-Middle Bronze Age (EMBA) individuals from the Tarim Basin cemeteries of Gumogou (2135–1939 BC), Xiaohe (1884–1736 BC) and Beifang (1785–1664 BC). Note that the Tarim samples are dated to the very earliest phases of known mummy burials. We are missing almost 2000 years of mummies.
Disregarding all of the “sneaky” disinformation propaganda inserted by the study’s authors (which I’ll explain below), the raw data in this study is actually very interesting.
4.1. Genetics: Tarim EMBA
The Tarim mummies studied were neither of Andronovo or Afanasievo descent. Fascinatingly, they belonged to a population known as West Siberian Hunter-Gatherers (WSHG), who directly descended from the Ancient North Eurasians (ANE). As the name implies, the ANE was a very ancient population; they diverged from ancient West Eurasians (most likely Paleolithic Europeans, similar to Gravettians) when they moved into Siberia during the Ice Age. The ANE had some ancient East Eurasian ancestry from a population similar to Tianyuan Man, which is ancestral to all East Asians but predates the development of the classic East Asian “Mongoloid” phenotype. This admixture event is predicted to have occurred very soon after the West Eurasian / East Eurasian split following the Out of Africa migration.
Early human migration maps borrowed from the Indo-European[dot]eu blog (note that Ancient North Siberians were mostly West Eurasian in origin):
WSHG seem to derive around 85% of their ancestry from ANE, with 10% ancient East Asian ancestry, and the remaining tiny fraction being West European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG) related. For reference, modern Northern Europeans have 20-35% ANE ancestry, and Proto-Indo-Europeans had 50%.
On a principal component analysis, the Tarim EMBA people cluster with the WSHG (West_Siberian_N and Botai) and close to the ANE samples Mal’ta Boy (MA-1) and Afontova Gora 3 (AG3).
Admixture analysis shows that the Tarim EMBA carry ~72% WSHG, ~16.6% ANE, and ~11% East Asian ancestry, most of which (~5.7%) appears to be related to Native Americans (aka Paleosiberians). This makes sense, since Native Americans have 15–30% ANE-related ancestry and both populations lived in Siberia.
When removing WSHG from the admixture analysis, we see that Tarim EMBA peoples were around ~85% ANE and ~15% East Asian. This is an extraordinarily high level of ANE admixture for a Bronze Age population. Furthermore, since all of the earliest Tarim Basin mummies were confirmed to be “exclusively Caucasoid, or Europoid” by anthropologists, this confirms that Ancient North Eurasians had a Caucasoid phenotype. Not only that but a Caucasoid phenotype that closely resembled Northern Europeans.
4.2. Genetics: Dzungaria EBA
The Dzungarian results were far less revolutionary or surprising, but they definitely help build the Tocharian narrative. Dzungarians mostly descended from Afanasievo peoples (~55.6%) mixed with West Siberian Hunter-Gatherers (~31.8%). They had an additional ~4.3% Middle Eastern and ~6.5% East Asian ancestry.
When breaking down the populations into earlier components, this equates to ~68% ANE ancestry (~7.4% from their 20.6% CHG ancestry). Interestingly, the Middle Eastern components from the previous model were grouped with CHG and EEF when I removed Afanasievo and WSHG. No idea why this happened, those components were still included in the model.
5. Tarim mummies, the story updated
This new information was a pretty big curveball. It was previously assumed that Indo-Europeans were the first to settle the Tarim Basin but it looks like Ancient North Eurasians got there first. The Dzungarians (who lived immediately to the north of Tarim) carrying high levels of Afanasievo and WSHG ancestry demonstrates an irrefutable link between the two populations. There is now a clear route for the Tocharian languages into the Tarim Basin, though this had already been hypothesized in many previous studies. While the raw contained data in this study was certainly interesting, the study itself was completely useless with regards to answering the question “Who were the Tocharians?” I believe this was by design…
6. Disinformation contained in the study
Mainstream media reporting on this study was, predictably, full of lies. For example, The Smithsonian called Indo-Europeans, who were ethnically Northern European, “migrants from West Asia.” When pointing out that ANE ancestry is common all over the Northern Hemisphere, they specified “particularly in Siberia and North America,” ignoring the 20-35% ANE ancestry in modern Northern Europeans (Uralic people have especially high levels of ANE ancestry). They claimed that the Tarim mummies have “facial features unusual in Asian populations,” which is an extremely duplicitous way of saying that Tarim mummies have Caucasoid/Europid phenotypes.
Every article I read published the same lies. However, the study itself contained masses of disinformation. Where do I even begin? This study is trash. Pure trash. Firstly, it doesn’t mention haplogroups at all. It doesn’t mention any previous data on R1a vs R1b, any of the past findings related to the mummies’ phenotypes, or the documented cultural shifts over the Bronze Age. So, they’re already lying by omission, which is despicable enough.
The word “Andronovo” isn’t mentioned once. Of course, the particular populations that they studied did not have any Andronovo ancestry, but that is almost certainly due to their incredibly narrow temporal and geographic focus. We are missing almost 2000 years of mummies and data from all over the Tarim Basin. This sample selection is completely insufficient. A lot can change in a millennium, especially with regards to human migrations and population turnovers. Entire ethnic groups can be wiped out or replaced in a century or two.
In addition to lying by omission, the authors also did plenty of regular lying. This began in the abstract when they claimed that their results “do not support previous hypotheses for the origin of the Tarim mummies.” They later expanded upon this by claiming that their results “support no hypothesis involving substantial human migration from steppe or mountain agropastoralists for the origin of the Bronze Age Tarim mummies.” The only thing that their results definitively prove is that Ancient North Eurasian-type people lived in some regions of the Tarim Basin from ~2100 to ~1700 BC. They disproved nothing about the previous Tocharian origin hypotheses.
One of their most egregious lies was describing the Caucasoid / Europid (i.e. West Eurasian) Ancient North Eurasians as an “ancient autochthonous Asian genetic group.” Autochthonous is an ancient Greek word meaning “sprung from the earth,” implying that ANE were of “Asian” (i.e. Mongoloid / East Asian) genetic ancestry. They then claimed that the Tarim mummies “belong to an isolated gene pool whose Asian origins can be traced to the early Holocene epoch” and that their “SO-CALLED Western physical features are probably due to their connection to the Pleistocene ANE gene pool.” Not only does this cast aspersions on the proven fact that the early Tarim mummies had Caucasoid/Europid phenotypes, but it understates the fact that Tarim EMBA people had ~85% ANE ancestry. The authors also managed to lowball the level of ANE ancestry in Tarim EMBA by representing their East Asian ancestry with a sample that had almost 25% ANE ancestry (Baikal_EBA).
I believe that the following two quotes fully expose the authors’ agenda:
- “the material culture and genetic profile of the Tarim mummies from around 2100 bc onwards call into question simplistic assumptions about the link between genetics, culture and language”
- “the greater IAMC, which spans the Hindu Kush to Altai mountains, may have alternatively functioned as a geographic arena through which cultural ideas, rather than populations, primarily moved”
Typical globalist nonsense: “Being a Tocharian is not related to genetics. Anyone can be a Tocharian if they simply adopt the Tocharian language. See, there was no genetic transmission at all [within this very narrow timeframe and in these very specific locations]!”
Why didn’t they study any samples after 1700 BC? Did something happen around that time period? Like the arrival of R1a-carrying Andronovo people who replaced the R1b-carrying inhabitants of the region?
Seems like pure cope on your part, Chinese really have no reason to falsify these things, we already have a long history dating back 1000s of years and don’t have to go down this route of “we wuz ancient Hindus n sheet” to reassure ourselves of our glory.
Anyway, political bias in genetics is unheard of in China, unlike in America.
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lmfao
How Sophisticated Test Scams From China Are Making Their Way Into the U.S.
The Atlantic, 2016 (http://archive.vn/SVxsy)
China “Cheats” the PISA Exams
The Diplomat, 2013 (http://archive.vn/uXaZj)
China is Cheating the World Student Rankings System
Time Magazine, 2013 (http://archive.vn/g9Au7)
Fraud Scandals Sap China’s Dream of Becoming a Science Superpower
New York Times, 2017 (http://archive.vn/UlIBe)
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Thanks for linking to Western news sources, which are known to he reliable and totally don’t seethe about China all the time…
In the end, nobody in China even has any reason to falsify or obfuscate these sorts of DNA findings from a peripheral region which was never even the core of Chinese civilisation.
It’s just you getting angry (as you admit) because the pre-historic world was more diverse than your dumb Aryan fantasies would have you believe.
I bet you believe Nordics built the pyramids as well? Wewuzzing is an American mental illness, only to he expected from a deracinated society which was created by settlers who fled Europe due to a patricidal hatred of the old order, little wonder so many weird things come out of America.
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“our country is known around the world for being a rabble of lying snakes but we have no reason to lie about these DNA studies on mummies that we hid for decades because we’re butthurt about Uyghurs. all of the lies you exposed in this study are just cope and we wuzzing :^)”
yea okay. go eat your gutter oil, try not to get mangled in an escalator maintenance hatch on your way
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Han, Han, Han. I’m seeing you are upset, because you think your governement is honest, and isn’t involved in western style scams. Simply, Mr.Thule is pointing the ommisions of a slightly profesional study. Thule is the least guy wuzzing nordicist fantasies, he has said that nor egyptians nor romans were nordics and shieet, he try to be honest when he is talking about ancient history and genetics. He is not creating a fantasy Aryan world, he is talking about different populations in Central Asia, and dealing with the issue of a millenia gap of information.
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Can you do a post on China one day, tired of these [redacteds] pretending to be advanced when they eat tortured dogs and shit and piss everywhere they go.
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Maybe
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Not that i believe we wuz Chinese stuff or whatever, but i never understood why would china need to cheat when Chinese are still east asian so have high IQ.
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More than any other nation (with the possible exceptions of Egypt or Israel), China is aggressively rewriting history, and standing in the way of analysis of the very tall and very europoid population that kickstarted their civilization. It’s criminal, and disgusting, in equal parts.
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There is no evidence that the Tarim population contributed anything to Chinese civilization.
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the CCP certainly does.
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Yeah well, it is much needed, especially with the proliferation of all these “based China” accounts. Even Anglin is shilling for these insectoids nowadays.
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the very implication of a caucasoid-looking, yet 80% or more ANE population has major implications in favour of a white, almost nordicist worldview; we have these people, who aren’t even Indo-European and come from fucking Eastern Siberia and yet they look similar to northern Europeans.
in fact, it may even reverse the general opinion which seems to be that non-dark hair in Europe only really spread at the onset of the Bronze Age and was nigh non-existent before.
it expands the horizon of the history of the white race a thousand miles more. at first, white history was associated with colonialism, medievalism and ancient Greco-Roman civilisation. with the irrefutable proving of the Proto-Indo-European Steppe hypothesis it expanded it into the stone and bronze age, and tied our history with the foundation of Indian civilisation
now it is expanding our history into the China, and the Meso- and Paleolithic, going beyond the Indo-European limits.
china has kept those mummies away from the public eye for years. they were completely unknown to the western public consciousness and barely known to western autists who care about these sorts of topics. china planted trees and rice atop of the pyramids in their regions so that they might look like hills in aerial pictures. genetic studies has been the go-to reaction to finding mummies or skeletons in archaeological sites for the last 10, 15 or even 20 years? why wait so long to study these mummies unless you are fearful of the results, or unless you’re taking your sweet time to find good copes if the results show that there were white people in China in ancient times?
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I remember the chines words for “wheel” and “cart” for instance can be traced to Proto-Aryan (I’m not fond of the mileading term “indo-European)
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Seeth hard! All of your “multi millenia culture” was created and taught by Aryans, led by Yellow (haired) Kings.
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I don’t think that’s true
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Lemme look for the sources….
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Aryan invasion of China (ie. Proto-Indo-European) – the evidence.
“The Rise of Agricultural Civilization in China: The Disparity between Archeological Discovery and the Documentary Record and Its Explanation”
by Zhou Jixu, 2006.
http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp175_chinese_civilization_agriculture.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2EGEoeolXwLynlql18NarTMxMb0GdfQu3tbwIJu7KW6puh5YzC7ejGIW0
“Abstract This research project puts forward an entirely new viewpoint on the prehistory of the Yellow River area and the evidence for it: the civilization of the Yellow River is not a result of an independent evolution, but of the impact of a foreign upon a native culture.
…
The Yellow Emperor’s nation held the middle reaches of the Yellow River because of their strong force, but they consolidated, expanded, and continued their rule in China by accepting the indigenous agricultural culture. The occupying nation was a branch of the Proto-Indo-European.
…
This paper tries to reveal the historical facts with the evidence of archeology, ancient documents, and historical linguistics.”
Cheers !
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Thank you, pal. Since I’m not at home yet I was not able to look in my laptop. I’ll download that info as well.
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A whole new meaning to “made in China.”
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Bruh, you have to be delusional to think China (a technocratic dictatorship) doesn’t falsify and make up data (because the truth would hurt their soft power) for their own benefit.
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But muh six gorillion years of history, gwailo!
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Interesting. Would/ do you have any articles on if Solomon Islands people are Afro/ European descented?
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I really admirethe hard work you’re putting on these articles, Thulebro. It’s interesting to see how governments systematically erase and rewrite stuff for the sake of their own power and interests.
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Interesting article overall but the out of Africa theory has been disproven for 30 years now and is only pushed to promote globalization and to prop up Africans low self esteem because of lack of any real contributions throughout history unlike Europeans. Recent discoveries through science have shown us that they’re older remains found in Europe and Asia much older than the ones they’re finding in Africa. Which shows us that “humans” if we are to use that term liberally here aren’t really one species but are taxonomic as are other animals like Dogs, Cats, Birds, and Fish. I share with your view that China and Russia are just as much in on the globalist agenda what with Putin’s ties to chabad lubavitch a messianic orthodox Jewish supremacist group or that Mao was also funded by the Rothschilds as was Kai-shek since the Zionists wanted the Qing dynasty to fall and make China a global enslaved industrial powerhouse making the West dependent on them for trade. It’s really these Duginists types who are promoting the whole based China/Russia bs but anyone who looks into these countries knows that they’re lead by communists. The reforms by Deng after Mao died or the Soviet Union falling in the 90s was just a restructuring of their states nothing more. China can’t even be called an ethnostate when it’s taking in African immigration in its southern provinces, forcing assimilation on the Tibetans and Uyghers with Han through intermarriage, allowing of homosexual hookup apps or tranny streamers in their country. Russia is also the same and is just as much in on the White genocide agenda. The government has practically opened its borders with central Asian countries who all have high birthrates and are majority Muslim. Russia also is leading in Europe with highest Muslim population and cities like Moscow have sizable non-Russian populations not too mention the fact they have legalized abortion longer than any other White nation and have high STD rates and the sodomite culture in their military which is rarely talked about in nationalist circles. The Russian government has affirmative action laws for non-Russians and promotes civic “nationalism”. All of the political parties in Russia are pre-approved by the government aka those that which aren’t approved by Putin get banned or worse locked up. Russian nationalists are genuinely oppressed and are imprisoned by the government for speaking out. So basically your choice for politicians in the West and the East are either neolibs(influenced by Alinsky), neocons(influenced by Trotsky), or neocommies(influenced by Stalin and Dugin).
Some stuff about OoA being disproven
Note that the “Out of Africa” theory is now UNSUPPORTED by any fossil evidence!
GREECE : New fossils suggest human ancestors evolved in Europe, not Africa :
https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/evolution-europe
First Human Ancestor Came from Europe Not Africa, 7.2 Million-year-old Fossils Indicate :
https://www.newsweek.com/first-hominin-europe-east-africa-human-evolution-613494
Europe was the birthplace of mankind, not Africa, scientists find :
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/05/22/europe-birthplace-mankind-not-africa-scientists-find/
Scientists Look To Europe As Evolutionary Seat : Found in Germany 20 years ago, this specimen is about 16.5 million years old:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/02/020219075535.htm
A 210,000-year-old skull (Apidima 1) has been identified as the earliest modern human
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-oldest-africa-reset-human-migration.html
Study reveals that humans migrated from Europe to Israel 40,000 years ago [NOT from Africa]
https://m.phys.org/news/2019-11-reveals-humans-migrated-europe-levant.html
https://files.catbox.moe/dn6u0z.jpgJPG
Full shocking paper (it goes out of way to indicate Negroes are non-human) :
Science quote : (even prior to recent 350,000 year discovery in DNA) :
2012 : “All the presuppositions posited in support of the Out-of-Africa hypothesis fail to hold up under simple scrutiny” :
from :
Re-Examining the Out-of-Africa Theory and the Origin of Europeoids (Caucasoids). Part 2. SNPs, Haplogroups and Haplotypes in the Y Chromosome of Chimpanzee and Humans
paper :
Click to access fsszbi.pdf
MODERN species and sub species proposed names of various Homo (detailed but lacking DNA refs) :
Click to access the-species-of-great-apes.pdf
Neanderthal genes (lacking only in Negros) contributes much of the known 538 genes for higher IQ.
All non-negro humans have Neanderthal genes. Between 1% and 20% of the human genome is Neanderthal, depending on region.
Only the recent Black mongrels in the last 300 years have some from their human side.
Science has proven many times that Blacks are VERY non human
“Out of Africa” theory was wrong, or a Jew lie. And all the links above prove it.
Man evolved completely outside africa, then some entered africa and became niggers by mating with ape-like Hominids.
GREECE : New fossils suggest human ancestors evolved in Europe, not Africa :
https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/evolution-europe – https://archive.md/cjpoL
First Human Ancestor Came from Europe Not Africa, 7.2 Million-year-old Fossils Indicate :
https://www.newsweek.com/first-hominin-europe-east-africa-human-evolution-613494 – https://archive.md/FZUW0
Europe was the birthplace of mankind, not Africa, scientists find :
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/05/22/europe-birthplace-mankind-not-africa-scientists-find/ – https://archive.md/9v2D5
Scientists Look To Europe As Evolutionary Seat : Found in Germany 20 years ago, this specimen is about 16.5 million years old:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/02/020219075535.htm – https://archive.md/gPIAN
A 210,000-year-old skull (Apidima 1) has been identified as the earliest modern human
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-oldest-africa-reset-human-migration.html – https://archive.md/s3fWo
Study reveals that humans migrated from Europe to ~~Israel~~ Judea 40,000 years ago [NOT from Africa]
https://m.phys.org/news/2019-11-reveals-humans-migrated-europe-levant.html – https://archive.md/OkmgF
Archived everything for those who care.
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A great overall comment.
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I’ve been told that the Japanese and Finnish languages are similar enough to be part of the same linguistic tree. Do you have any thoughts on this thuletide?
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They arent similar but you can read about the theories that claim they’re part of some sort of superfamily here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ural-Altaic_languages
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Thanks Thule
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As someone who’s only spoken English, I’ve always wondered why Japanese sounded different than other asian languages, and it always sounded Scandinavian to the point where i thought that Carmel dancing song was Japanese when it was actually Scandinavian.
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Hi. On one of the above graphics, it shows Early East Eurasians as moving north and becoming Upper Paleo Siberians, and then migrating westward and appearing as the first European HGs. Am I interpreting that correctly? Is that the source of some of the very early European paleo HGs being said to be so similar to Tyanhuan Man? If so, it seems Euros have been admixed from the very beginning. Is there any evidence of East Asians having a similar degree of admixture from west Eurasians, or have they been less admixed than Europeans? Because that’s how it looks on those maps. Thank you.
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iirc Europeans have no ancestry from the UP Siberians like Ust-Ishim, it’s a dead linage. Europeans have some East Eurasian ancestry via the Ancient North Eurasians, who had 80% West Eurasian and 20% East Eurasian ancestry, related to Tianyuan man. ANE presumably inherited that from Ancient North Siberians, who had 70% WE and 30% EE ancestry. East Asians have ancestry from Ancient North Siberians and Ancient North Eurasians, so yes they have West Eurasian ancestry. Amerindians have up to 33% ANE ancestry and some Siberian peoples also have a lot of ANE ancestry.
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When did the early east Eurasians that became an extinct lineage get to Siberia? Before the west Eurasians got there and became the ANE? What time periods, or is it just guess work? They split off from one another about 50,000 b.c. right? I assume they weren’t phenotypically that different from one another at that early stage.
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phenotypes can change very quickly, just look at the difference between men during ww1 and men today. but that is mainly due to insane amounts of social and biological engineering with xenoestrogens and stuff. I’d guess that early east eurasians and early west eurasians were probably pretty similar. afaik we have no idea when the lineages mixed or arrived in the region. yana dates to 29,000 BC so sometime before that. I read somewhere that apparently the east eurasian ancestry in ANE is actually lower than 22%. will have to look into it more
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I know it’s wikipedia, but it cites a study which seems to claim that, except for the Ainu, gene flow was a one way affair from East Asians to West Eurasians, with no evidence of flow in the opposite direction.
‘Genetic analyses show that all ANE samples (Afontova Gora 3, Mal’ta 1 and Yana-RHS) show evidence for geneflow from an East Asian group (samplified by the Amis, Han, or Tianyuan), in considerable amounts (~16% to 32%). In contrast, no evidence for ANE-related geneflow into East Asians (Amis, Han, Tianyuan), except the Ainu, was found.[13]
Lipson and Reich find that the 24,000-year-old Mal’ta1 and 16,500-year-old AfontovaGora3 from western Siberia and several 7,000- to 14,000-year-old Western Eurasian individuals show evidence of gene flow from a population related to the East and Southeast Asian Ami. We observe that the Eastern European hunter-gatherer Karelia, like the ancient Siberians and Western Eurasians, also show evidence of East Asian gene flow. We also find that the pattern occurs for more East and Southeast Asian populations than just the Ami (Figures S2C and S2D; Tables S3C–S3F).
— Melinda Yang et al.’
I recall reading on the Eurogenes blog a while back that there was even evidence that some of the WHG groups also showed evidence of gene flow from East Eurasians. Maybe those early east Eurasians didn’t go fully extinct and were assimilated?
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yep, wiki is a very unreliable source controlled by literal communists with highly cherrypicked data.
ANE basically got replaced by incoming east asian migrants (which created the north americans), but it’s impossible that there was no geneflow from ANE into east asians, since many northern east asians today have ANE ancestry, siberians, mongolians, etc. Often these genetic studies have very bad methodology. using amis and han to represent all east asians makes as much sense as using scottish and spanish people to represent all west eurasians. plus the tianyuan man sample existed something like 10-20,000 years before ancient north eurasians, so how could there be ANE geneflow into tianyuanman? academics constantly lie by omission
“Maybe those early east Eurasians didn’t go fully extinct and were assimilated?”
yea I forgot that the aurignacian goyetQ actually had some east eurasian ancestry from the population that occupied europe before the first europeans arrived, but it wasnt a much and that ancestry wasnt found in other ice age europeans, like gravettians
I think WHG had some ANE ancestry and that’s why they show some eastasian affinity. that’s a guess tho
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Thanks for the replies and clarifications. That’s wild that people with East Eurasian affinities occupied Europe before the West Eurasians did. It sucks, because even though it was 40.000 years ago, it gives ammo to the anti-white leftists who might want to argue that Europeans are really not indigenous even to Europe but were interlopers. Afro-centrists already make such claims.
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